Not in the best of my moods now. USCIS is playing football with my vacation plans, I am FED UP of following up and trying to expedite my Advance parole. Am completely pissed off (I do not write these kind of words unless my spirits are at their nadir). I do not want to get started on this. Just poured my heart out in the immigration forums.
Was watching a talk show on Vijay TV (Neeya? Naana?) where the host picks a debatable topic and moderates the arguments between the 2 sides. Yesterday, the topic was marriage and the relevance of the customs(thaali, kanchivaram pattu, caste etc.) to the younger and elder generations. I do not want to go into details.
Good:
When the host posed a question to the elder generation about the relevance of caste in marriages, most of them said they would accept if their son/daughter chose someone from a different caste if they think the choice is good.
Bad:
There was a young woman who said she does not believe in Thaali(mangal sutra), she sees it as a metal, but she would wear it if her in-laws insisted on she wearing it. When the host asked the elders on the show if any of them would consider this girl as their daughter-in-law, NO ONE, not even one RAISED THEIR HANDS. I was flabbergasted. I thought the staunch belief in Thaali was gone with my generation. I wear it only when I feel like it, no strict rules. I see many of my friends who wear it only during festivals or when their in-laws visit them. The girl who spoke out against it is still in college.
WORRRRRSSSSSSSSSSSSTTTTTTTTTTTT:
When the relevance of caste in marriage was posed to the younger generation, all but 2 said they will not choose a partner from different caste. The reason one girl told was "she wants to be accepted by her parents and all her relatives and do not want to hurt them" - fair enough. The reason the 2nd girl told was unbelieavable. I mean outright disgusting. Here is what she said : " I feel proud and superior of the caste that I am born into. I am a brahmin and an Iyengar at that. I feel I have done lot of punniyam(good deeds & hence good karma) in my past life, that is why I am blessed to be born as an Iyengar in this life. I will choose only an Iyengar groom." I cannot believe this.
Monday, November 19, 2007
This and That...
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22 comments:
Unbelievable! Especially the young woman talking like that!
Hope your vacation plan gets sorted out soon.
regarding the WORRRRRSSSSSSSSSSSSTTTTTTTTTTTT case, I have seen tons and tons of them. Particularly when you (I) are not a brahmin, you get to see their true colours, including the ones "we don't mind having friendship with non-brahmins". Loads of stories I can tell. They are all NRIs, well educated, younger generation (at least 10+ years younger than me)... Don't get me started there.
Middle class Iyers who want to be "perfect" brahmins are the worst.
:) me being a tam bram married in to a mal household i know how much pressure i have undergone..and trust me....now my mom says that even if she had looked around for a suitable guy for me...she wouldnt have got a guy like the Mr.all brownie points to the Mr for acting so sensible and such :)
now coming from the younger generation is what baffles me the most...well....though i belong to the tam bram community....i have heard my dad say you can never believe these -Pappans :) i know i must have offended many by uising that word...but that is exactly my dad's take :)
but one thing though..you can not generalise saying that all brahmins are like this only...that is too generic statement as it sounds....
Hi IBH,
//but one thing though..you can not generalise saying that all brahmins are like this only...that is too generic statement as it sounds....//
if you are referring to my statement //They are all NRIs, well educated, younger generation (at least 10+ years younger than me)//,
the meaning was, all my stories are about NRIs, well educated people and younger generation.
I may have more stories about RIs (non-NRI), not well educated, and older generation, but they don't surprise me.
But now it has become that, very very few have surprised me by not attaching any any value to their caste.
:-)
Just curious, why and what pressure for a tam brahm? I thought if you are a mal and married to a tam brahm, then I can see what the pressure is..
The word "tam brahm", does it also imply chennaites?
Rohini: Yes it is, if it came from the older people it wouldn't have surprised me.
premalatha: I have not seen that many people behaving like that, probably that is why I was soo taken aback.
IBH: coming from a college going girl is what gets me. I did not make any generic statement regarding anything, if "Iyengar" was substituted by any other caste also, my reaction would have been the same. At least if that girl stopped with saying "my caste" and not mentioned the name of her caste, it would have been a little bit better. I am compppllleeeettttttttteeeeelllllly against all this caste crap. And educated people thinking themselves as superiors because of their caste I think is bullshit.
FYI, my BESTEST friend is an Iyengar, all but 2 of my college friends were brahmins, I was thinking this caste stuff will go away in another 3-4 generations, but looks like it is here to stay.
Am surprised at both, the bad and the WORRRRRRSSSSSSSSSTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT cases :D I must have been living in a cave or maybe my parents didn't do a "good job" of bringing me up as a brahmin. I am neutral towards my caste as it really doesn't reflect on who I am. The high-caste vs. low-caste issues didn't raise it's ugly head at least for me and J. Really, I don't get this fanaticism abotu one's caste at all. I have seen a little bit of it in my ILs but never paid any attention to it so I guess they tired of saying such things in front of me.
And no one from older generation raising their hands for the girl who said she doesn't believe in the custom of wearing a mangalsutra/thali? Really, they should pick their battles wisely. This is not that big a deal comapred to other qualities that they should be looking for in their DIL (like willingness to accept her IL family for instance).
By the way I did a post on something similar (meaning is caste/religion the sole identifier for me? should it be?) here :
http://my2centstoo.blogspot.com/2007/04/who-am-i.html
Oh and I got carried away in the other parts of the post and forgot to say what I initially came to comment on: hope you get your AP fast! I know the frustration and how every single thing hangs in a balance because of that stupid piece of paper.
Gettingtherenow,
I know a couple living here in UK. She had her hair cut when the groom's family went to see the girl. The groom's family strictly told them to have her hair grown before marriage. She is happily married now. You guys are talking about thaali? haa..
your parents indeed didn't do a good job. :-D
I will have to check (next time when I see) if any of the girls I know here do not wear thaali. AFAI remember they all do. (they are all at least one decade younger than me. I am the only oldie here. :-( )
(I don't wear thaali and don't know what my ILs think. Never bothered to ask them. I don't think my parents approve either but I never bothered to ask them either. mine is inter caste marriage btw).
Premlatha: Yes I went through the "grow your hair" thing too. And I even had to get my nose pierced just to make my MIL happy (I don't have enough words to curse her for that!) Unfortunately the piercing got infected 4 days before my wedding and I was advised to let it close and heal by itslef. I guess that was my way of getting back at my MIL :P
Mine is an inter-caste marriage too and I don't wear the mangalsutra or any other signs of a "suhagan" mandated by our community. Like you, I never asked my ILs or my parents what they think about it. I think it bothers my MIL (yay!!) and my parents don't care either way as my mom herself doesn't wear a mangalsutra anyway. I don't even observe ANY fasts and I haven't asked MIL if (or how much) it bothers her. Again - Yay!! if it bothers her :D
You can tell I am a b***h :D
//You can tell I am a b***h :D //
Nah, we are angels. (give a high five mate). :-D
I think they are planted to stir commotion.. seriously.. who thinks like that these days?
CeeKay: agree one h.u.n.d.r.e.d. percent. It has been a long time since I wore my thaali, did not wear it even when my MIL was here (i know she would have fumed inside, because I did not even bother to ask). Advance parole - Hmm. Don't get me started on this. For the amount curses I have uttered in the past couple of weeks, every one in USCIS should be burning in hell by now. Read your post too, that is exactly how I feel too.
Prema & Ceekay: Joining b***h/angels club.
dotmom: I don't think so. This girl was taking the traditional side in all the topics. The moderator himself was surprised by her thoughts and there were some elders from the other side who were admonishing this girl.
The girl you mentioned in the "worst" case? I think that kind of mentality comes from being RAISED like that. I am sure she grew up hearing those opinions and that is why she firmly believes that now. It is very possible that she could have picked up this mentality from her peers but without family's influence, I don't think her opinions could have been so deep rooted.
Girls, me too..me too... for the b***h/angels club. I don't wear my thaali either and my MIL takes every oppurtunity to point it out even though I don't ask her opinion on that and I don't give a hoot abt it. I cut my hair soon after marriage and I so knew MIL was fuming abt it....I keep cutting it shorter each time (this to openly irritate her)!!!!
BTW, why don't you do the 22 questions tag? I think you would enjoy doing it...
premalatha - the pressure of me being the only one from my extremely orthodox family who was the first to legally and officially marry a so called 'non-brahmin'...ok no offense meant here...i dont really connect myself with any caste or even religion for that fact....i go to infant jesus church more often than i go to a temple...it is all what an individual wants....so no i didnt mean it in a 'superior' way of being pressurised....from a tam brahm family....what i meant was the family that i belong to and the family that am going in to .....oh! did i mention that not even my parents had this issue of me marrying the so called 'non-brahmin' but my extended family....the few in mmy family who have married outside this caste...(note that am not calling this as 'my' caste) they have eloped and got married...that was the pressure i meant...well The Mr. was also pressurised coz he was marrying in to a non-nair family...
Prema - dont mind me calling you this...:) hey i have been a regular reader of your blog...and another main reason is i am from madurai and hey did my formative schooling from kombai higher secondary school :)
Anitha- no , i dont think this caste stuff will go away in the near future....with people like her. i dont think it will.....and hey no i didnt mean to say your statement as generic...the comment from prema sort of meant to me as a generic statement....
It is unbelievable ! people still think like that young college girl ?? I am a brahmin and I don't wear mangalsutra either except occasionally to go with a saree if I decide to wear a saree ( which is very rare ).
BTW, what is AP ? and why do you need it for going on a vacation ? But I hope that gets sorted soon.
2b's mom: AP is advanced parole. When one is applying for a green card in the US, the person can't leave the country and if needed, they would have to get this adv.parole thingy so they can leave.
Shobana: Thank you my friend, for explaining it.
Anitha,
I just typed an essay here and it vanished because my adapter died on me :( Hugs to you - I hope you get your advanced parole soon. I am pretty much sailing on the same boat as you in terms of frustration with the USCIS but for different reasons. Regarding the WORRRRRRRSSSSSSSSSTTTTT case I echo Dotmom here - these are just deeds of people who want to stir up a commotion and create sensationalism. It is hard to believe that at this time and age there are people who think like this - that too an educated college girl - absolutely nonsensical thoughts. Regarding the Bad case I don't believe this is as big an issue. I don't think much of parents who would judge a girl (future bride) for wearing or not wearing a Thali. There are mucccccch bigger issues than that. Like GTN they can pick and choose their battles wisely. And I do wear the thali but I have no qualms in taking it off, if it would save me 30 minutes of waiting time at the airport. And it does go well with the dresses I am wearing so I really don't mind wearing it that much. Spiting In-laws is another matter altogether ;)
All,
thanks for your comments. The perception of whether the WORRSSST case is planted or not will depend on the kind of people that we have come across in our lives and whether we want to believe it or not.
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